What You Want (Survey Results)

Yes, I would love to know how to figure out dues for a new group. I admit that I would be nervous about asking money to start this group.

Yes. This is the sort of awkward technical detail that I would not figure out on my own very easily, and it might otherwise be a barrier to me getting started.

This would definitely be very helpful and informative.

BTW I went back to my home office and I looked at my personality profile and I am the same as you (INJT). Maybe that I why I enjoy reading your comments. Also, it is nice to know someone else who thinks like I do.

This is definitely of interest.

As others have stated, I would've thought it premature to ask for dues at a start-up of a group. But then also thought it would be hard to commence dues after a group is well underway.

So yes, any and all hints and suggestions around this topic will be very helpful!

This would be a great topic. I think I understand the point of charging dues but I do not how I would sell it for a new group.

When I first read that you were earning an income from your mastermind group, I was surprised. All of the Mastermind groups I'd heard of were mutual-support groups, where there was no cash changing hands and everyone was in it to support and grow.

The idea that this was "worth" something beyond what each individual put into it was a bolt out of the blue.

I'm still more interested in forming a mastermind group to share and grow, however, finding out how one can be monetized is fascinating.

Can this be done without a ton of Chutzpah? (I'm not an "A" type personality, so asking for cash up front is not my strong suit.)

This is a question that probably should have occurred to me, but didn't, Randy. I have been thinking about this group as a sort of "thinktank"... perhaps I'm on the wrong track.

I can understand how you, with a proven track record, would be able to seek a salary (which presumably comes from the dues pool), but I'd be extremely interested in reading how we should approach it, when first starting a group.

Yes! Please tell us exactly how to gain members, what (and how) to charge them to be part of the group and what to do while our groups are getting established! Looking forward to the report Randy. Thanks for doing this, you're the best.

I definitely want to see this report! I'd like to see something on whether everybody pays the same, or if a sliding scale of some kind would be appropriate. Would the dues paid stay the same forever, or might they change? If they might change, why? What would you suggest for someone who might be a productive member of the group, but couldn't afford to pay the dues?

Yes:

-What formula do you suggest for calculating the dues amount? Flat fee, tiers by size of company (employees) or assessing a % of gross revenue, other methods? Are there groups using different formulas?

-Do you ever bend the rules for paying dues?

-How do you suggest collecting the dues (cc, check, e-payment? monthly, annually, per meeting attendance?)

-Have there been collection issues and how did you deal with them?

-What refund policy do you suggest in the event of dissatisfied members if dues are collected in advance?

-Are the dues used to pay group expenses, only as compensation to the moderator, or some combination?

-What services are offered to the group members other than the moderation of the group? Do you recommend setting up a group website, wiki, chat room, etc?

-Is there a "free trial" period to assess mutual compatibility?

-Do you include a satisfaction guarantee?

wow! you haven't even started to explain how to start such a group and already people are asking how to cash in on servicing this group.

now isn't that what you americans would call "counting chickens before they are hatched"? ;)

but okay: how much one could make financially is always an interesting theme and talking turkey about it is certainly a necessity sooner or later.

so: yes, that's a very good idea, please go for it! ;)

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For those who wonder (I did), Manfred is in Germany.

I'm not surprised at all at the question, Manfred, since it is an aspect of what I talked about in the introduction. It is a bit mind-boggling that you can get the value of the group and be paid for it! But really, running the group takes time -- time that you can't spend being more successful, so it's reasonable to be paid for that time. Also, having dues makes for a significantly better group, as I'll explain in the report. -rc

Charging dues/fees is good, providing there is a structure where the curious can determine there is value to be received before committing to pay anything. Does your report reflect how this is done? How do we promote such a Mastermind enterprise, we who have ideas we would like to share, and have needs we haven't even been able to put in to words yet?

It seems what you are offering to provide is a little like describing the cart ahead of the horse; I am still trying to visualize the horse, trying to understand the platform which will be mutually shared and from which participants will all receive benefit in striving for their individual success. After viewing the horse, it would be a good idea to see how to build the cart.

I would be happy to be a participating dues-paying member of such a group. The previous comments are all good, and deserve answers. They all seem to be trying to phrase the question I am asking: For you to get my money, I'd like to see what I'm paying for. Maybe your report covers this?

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Just to clarify for anyone confused by your last paragraph, I'm not trying to sell access to my Mastermind group. That's not at all what this site is about, and in fact the members of this site cannot apply for my group, since applicants to my group need sponsors. Rather, this is about my helping others create their own groups, which will be totally independent of mine.

That said, Yes: there is definitely some carts going before the horses here. I didn't look to see when you joined the mailing list, so I don't know where you are in the series of core "home study" articles. But I can guarantee that there are people ahead of you! I'm happy to see you have answered the survey, but more than 150 people answered it before you (and plenty more after!) As I mentioned in my note replying to Manfred's comment, it is mind-boggling that one can both benefit professionally from a group and be paid -- perhaps very well -- to run it, so it's quite natural to for readers to wonder "HOW?!" even before they fully understand all the steps necessary for creating a group. You're still in the dark because you haven't seen all the articles (no one has gotten that far yet), but others are further along and are starting to put the pieces together. I'm confident that the pieces will fall into place for you and most people -- but yes: you (and they) need all the pieces first. -rc

Yes, this would be interesting to find out. Count me in.

Collecting dues assumes that all members are making contributions that have equal value. Why not have members invest their discrete intellectual capital instead. The group could set an arbitrary value on a specific contribution. For example, say an idea is needed on how to improve a certain manufacturing process. The group determines that it will award 1% of the value the winning idea generates over its lifetime to the contributor. In turn the idea contributor can reinvest this knowledge capital in other ventures in which the group is involved (e.g., a royalty). Initially all of this would be a paper exercise but as the revenue from these ventures begins to materialize then a salaried Knowledge Asset Manager can begin making monetary payments per the initial agreements. Over the long run, ideas that generate revenue will be capitalized and their contributors properly rewarded, while ideas that fail will fade away without the benefit of political mayhem.

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Well, that could work, but most people who are truly capable would never sign on to such a scheme: "Join our group, give us ideas, and we'll give you some of the royalties from your efforts" just doesn't sound like a great idea to me -- I sure as hell wouldn't join. But yes, I'll address the problem of differing value of member contributions in my report, which is starting to get long! -rc

The idea of charging dues seems a good idea to me since people tend to value something they have to pay for more than something "free".

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That's definitely an aspect! I'm starting to write the report, and that will be covered quite thoroughly. -rc

Yes Randy I did wonder where Manfred was from and it's not just the Americans that asked the question, I did and I'm from Australia. Randy did bring up the topic in his introduction and like a lot of people, I thought a Mastermind group was just a group of like minded people thrashing out ideas with no monetary exchange. When Randy put it to us that you can charge for such a service it leaves one wondering how one charges when one feels unworthy. Surely there are people out there that know more than I do. So hence the question, It doesn't mean we are all greedy, but it is a question that needs answering. So thank you Randy for giving us such valuable information, and I have been enjoying reading the emails so far.

I noticed several comments mentioning "Free" reports. The implication I get from them is soon, we will need to pay you for "the rest of the course." Am I wrong? It would be perfectly OK, however, I feel that it is wrong to lead us along with the "FREE" and then change to "Not Free."

I published an e-mail political newsletter from 1994 into 2005, but health problems caused me to stop, and in doing that I watched many others trying to make money off the Internet, and most were failures. I did mine with donations, which seemed at the time the best way to get income from it, but I do not think that would work now.

In any case, carry on!

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The free e-mail course is free. The free reports are free. Certainly if there is demand for more, I will charge for the expertise I provide -- surely you're not suggesting that if I give some great stuff away for free, that I always have to give everything away for free. Still, if there's no demand for more? Then there will be no charge, since there won't be any more! -rc

I'll admit to a certain amount of confusion.

You have said that the MG (Mastermind Group) is a way to collaborate with other people who are facing problems similar to your own. You have said that if there's already an MG that matches your needs, you should join it -- and that if there isn't, it's still so important that you ought to consider forming one yourself.

You've also hinted (without explaining, yet) that paying dues for the MG is actually part of what makes it successful -- to the point where people that are paying you actually want you to RAISE the price.

Now your proposed new report will be "how to charge dues, even if the MG is new". But it seems to me that this is exactly the opposite emphasis. Instead of focusing on using the MG to understand how to make a business more successful, we now consider the MG to BE a source of (at least financial) success.

Randy, I think it isn't in the right order. I strongly suspect that I WILL want to read this report, but only when I've gotten far enough along to know more about what an MG is, and why I want to be part of it. (Source #1 has presumably only touched the surface of this, without getting into any details.)

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Your summary is correct -- until you get to the conclusion of what the report is about ("how to charge dues, even if the MG is new"). That's what the trending question on the surveys is. The answer ...will take a special multi-page report! Again, the pieces will fall into place, but as you suggest, you don't have anywhere near all the pieces yet. -rc

I would definitely like to more about the fee structure for a new group. One might assume that the moderator will have to truly market his/her credentials to add legitimacy to the group in order to promote the willingness of potential members to see the potential value in learning from this person.

Charging a fee seems a bit like Tom Sawyer's fence painting project. Certainly a fee is not a problem, providing there is value returned. If a member envisions paying a fee to become used as a resource, he must have something desirable in return. So, what can a new committee organizer promise as the return for the cash and information commitment?

There seem to be fringe issues relating to nationality/personality over the payment side of this (which is why I've included my location!) but my question to Randy is:

Is any place for a FREE MG?

Whilst I am peripherally interested in this concept to "become more successful", my interest is mostly to do with social responsibilities - my definition of "success" is unrelated to money, and more to do with providing good quality of life for people who cannot afford to pay for it. I work in private residential care for the elderly (inc. those with dementia), which is a famously ill-funded sector (in England at least).

I may be in the wrong place of course, and I do agree with the quote below - but I also believe strongly in helping each other for free.

"It's unwise to pay too much but it’s unwise to pay too little. When you pay too much you lose a little money, that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing you bought it to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot. It can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it’s well to add something for the risk you run. And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better!" --John Ruskin (1819-1900)

Yes on the report. I am very much looking forward to it.

I think other people's questions are right on the money (if you'll pardon the pun)!

I am intrigued by your reference to sponsorship for your group. I can see some ways that could be useful, but would love more information on the pros and cons of sponsorship, what you get from it, what the members get from it, and how it makes the group better. Is the leader the only who can sponsor new members? Can any group member sponsor a new member? If so, does the leader have to approve that person?

In addition to pricing, I think I can see how to market a paid group, but would appreciate more information on that aspect. What do you say to people? What is the USP? I see Mastermind as being a part of an overall offering, an added benefit. Do you see it as a stand alone product? How do you sell the value then?

Also, what do you think of certifying a Mastermind Director? I did take a short course that provided me such a certificate. Do you think this is of value when marketing a paid Mastermind group (i.e. the group is led by a certified Mastermind Director using a proven process)?

Thanks a million for the great information Randy. You're the best!

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Sponsorship, recruiting, USPs and your other questions are beyond the scope of a report on how to charge dues. They're all good questions, though, so I'll add them to my survey file! -rc

Management of risk. Management of return on investment. In any endeavor we are expected to profit from, there is an element of risk. That is the heart of the entrepreneur, is it not?

I am one of those who likes to have a solid foundation before leaping into the unknown, being able to calculate my chances and at least see the possibilities before I launch. So, often my strategy is to keep learning, and once I can at least see the possibilities, and understand how to connect the dots, I pull the trigger and embark on the journey.

So I might be termed cautious or risk averse in some respects. I intend to keep learning, keep engaging, keep growing. I definitely want to read and understand the "charging" article. But I also want to get deeper into my understanding of the series you are sending me.

So, Yes!, I want to read this. And as I wait for it, I will stay the course and watch for that instant of opportunity, where I can tie things together and undertake a new era in my life. Thanks, Randy!

Like many others, I'm interested in this particular report, as I can see the value of having members "invested" in the process.

However, I feel as though we're possibly allowing ourselves to become too focused on this single aspect, particularly so early in the series. The main thrust of the groups, as I understand it, is of the benefits to be derived from collaboration. The cost of that collaboration, in my opinion, should be far down the list of considerations.

Yes, I'd definitely be interested in the financial possibilities.

I would actually really like just such a report. I would really, really like a nuts-to-bolts almost step-by-step guide how to start a mastermind group business from day 1 to profitability.

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Well, I wouldn't go that far, but it will at least explain the hows and whys of dues. -rc

Yes. I would like a report detailing how to build my first MasterMind group.

Currently, I'm at a crossroads on two part-time career paths that I hope to bring to full-time in about three years. So, I'm willing to wait a bit to make sure my waterfowl are well-aligned, before starting my first group.

Thanks for bringing us this resource.

While I think charging a fee implies commitment on the part of the payer, do you think it could lead to a stagnant group?

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No. It's exactly the other way around, as you'll hopefully see. -rc

I'm having difficulty getting around the idea of charging someone to help me. It seems directly opposite. I can understand paying to GET helpful information, but not to give it. What's wrong with my thinking?

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Only that your information is incomplete. You're not paid to get info, you're paid to run the group so that everyone in the group (including you) can benefit. More in the report, which is coming along nicely. -rc

Geez I feel like such a rube...so far your early article on fear has pegged me to a T. I'm trying valiantly not to hyperventilate at the whole Mastermind concept and just eat this elephant a bite at a time as presented.

All these valid questions and comments, I bet you get a real buzz going and get some real energy out of this feedback, but by all means, take your time, Rome wasn't built in a day.

(I'm not trying to slow you down, I'm just wondering where you find the time to do it all and keep your own in-groups happy.)

My 0,02€

Would this work in any culture? I'm from the Netherlands, Manfred is from Germany. Even between those countries is a difference in culture, not to mention the difference in culture between Europe and the United States of America. But then, you told in an earlier reply that many people are ahead of me, so my information probably is not complete to answer that question myself.

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I think it will work in any culture where people strive to better themselves -- which is to say it's not the culture that matters, but the mindset. -rc

I've been looking forward to your 'Dues Report', and when I read that it was free (but soon might not be), I hurried to download it. I can't imagine why paying to be part of the group would be necessary. Ironically, I found myself needing to pay $1 for that free report, and $10 in total! Am I supposed to be learning from that?

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As this entry notes, "it's quite advisable to actually read that page!" Had you done so, you would have seen you can, in fact, easily download it for free. -rc

Randy, in your Mastermind Dues Report you state on page 4 that you didn't want typical entrepreneurs in your group. but rather people with a true success mindset.

Question - what is the most successful and efficient method for finding such people and then qualifying them? I understand that the dues play a role here, but paying money alone won't help ensure this.

Perhaps that could be addressed in one of your chapters.

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Absolutely correct: dues alone won't ensure a solid group. That's what a specific focus is about, as well as the "rules" I allude to in the article series. It's another report I need to work on, I think -- it takes a bit of explanation to see how to do it just right. -rc

This is the first time you are teaching this course. If, in a year or two you decide to make a version two for new students, you will be able to rearrange the order of presentation so that a bunch of these perfectly reasonable questions will never arise, because the answers will be presented ahead of the material that prompts the question. But talking pedagogy here feels strange.

I was tempted to design a system which could be paused when I would be unavailable for a week or two, but I quickly decided that in an effort like this we should try the simplest thing that could possibly work and only fix it into a more complex form when that exhibited problems that matter.

You are already showing the kind of flexibility and nimbleness that is required to make plans succeed as reality conflicts with our prior vision. Reality wins. Get over it. Plan-Do-Check-Adjust is the kind of meta system that the real world demands. Even the Army now routinely conducts an After-Action-Review which amounts to the two steps Check and Adjust.

Do you keep a journal of this project? Would you share with us or perhaps with a smaller group the insights you have gathered during the course of this teaching project so far? Have there already been two or a dozen or a hundred changes of direction and plan in the first month or two? I know when the project first delivered course material publicly, but for all I know, it could have started years ago and only surfaced in the last two months.

Am I commenting too much? Should I restrain myself and focus on only the content of your blog entry and keep my other thoughts more to myself? You don't have to answer that explicitly at all let alone in public.

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Heh! You are insightful. I did get the idea to teach this about two years ago, but no, I don't keep extensive notes: I'm a "back-burner" thinker who cogitates on a problem, and when my subconscious is ready, stuff starts pouring out at an alarming rate. Yes, there are minor course corrections along the way as I realize I have to explain some points more thoroughly (for instance, it's becoming obvious I need to explain "How to find and recruit members" a lot more. To me, it's exceedingly simple, but clearly that's just me, since so many are asking about it!) So while there are certainly minor course corrections here and there, you are also right that as I teach this awhile, I could well rearrange things and come up with a "Version 2" down the road sometime, at least a couple of years away. -rc